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Old 02-15-2010, 09:59 PM
Razorx1970 Razorx1970 is offline
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Default Battle Foam Warmachine/Hordes case Review/Comparison In-depth
Well, considering Privateer Press chooses to Censor their forum, and wants to stand behind Romeo the owner of Battle Foam, no matter how inflammatory or cocky he is, I figured I'd offer the pros and cons of their new cases elsewhere now.

On Privateer's own forums, the TRUTH about their new case isn't encouraged, or welcome there, yet they make posts asking for comments and suggestions on the topic of the new Battle Foam bags. Ironic really. The owner went as far as personal attacks too, but since there's an alliance with Privateer Press with these cases, they allow it.

So on with the truth, and a real fact based review...

Privateer Press/Battle Foam Warmachine/Hordes case... MSRP $145+$19 S&H Direct from BattleFoam.com.

Today is the release date as well, so gaming shops may have theirs this week as well.

Pros, or Features...

Triple stitching, complete with metal buckles.

An inner plastic shell, which is said to support up to 200lbs without buckling.

TSA/FAA approved, so the case is set for airline travel.

The back of the bag zippers down to reveal a very cool area, which has an imbedded 3-ring binder, a variety of pockets designed to hold more stacks of cards, and a area on the interior of flap itself which is made to hold 4 dry erase markers.

17"W X 14"H X 11"D are the bag dimensions.

Comes with..

3 X 1.5" TROOP TRAYS
1 X 2.0" TROOP TRAY
2 X 2.5" WARJACK/WARBEAST TRAYS
6 X .25" TOPPERS

All trays are pre cut foam, designed to maximize the entire foam layout, for maximum capacity for Warmachine and Hordes miniatures.

Which is said to hold.. 105 SMALL BASE MODELS, 22 MEDIUM BASE MODELS, AND 24 LARGE BASE MODELS, and each tray is 15.5-inches x8.5-inches per tray.

The trays are larger in dimensions than what the competition has to offer too, and the closest competitor currently only offers pluck-foam trays. Thus some space can be wasted with the pluck foam system, if one isn't careful how they utilize their trays.

3 front pockets, one large enough to accommodate rule books, two others dice and templates, and side pockets to accommodate a drink and cell phone.

Embroidered Privateer Press and Warmachine, and/or Hordes logos on the bag, depending which version you get.

A small Velcro-friendly area can be found on the back of the bag as well, which is designed for displaying any tournament medal/badges won.

All of the trays and case have been designed in conjunction with Privateer Press, so it's a joint effort between both companies.

Opens via the top flap like most bags, or zippers all the way down to open the entire bag for easier access. Also features an interior large pocket large enough for standard sized rule books on the inside of the flap.

A zipper on the bottom of the case promises expandability later.

Warranted for life from Manufacturer Defects.

The owner of the company CLAIMS that their Warmachine/Hordes bag will hold 2X as much as an Army Transport, and has said this numerous times in a public forum.

Cons

Cost almost, if not twice as much as any other offering from any of the competition who sells a similar product.

Lacks true expandability at present, because the design of the bag and trays, are a completely different dimension, than that of their existing Battle Foam product line. If you own an existing Battle Foam bag, the trays from it and this bag aren't compatible. Regular Battle Foam tray dimensions are 15.5X12, this bag has 15.5X8.5 trays.

Theoretically you can put a Warmachine/Hordes tray made for this bag, in a regular Battle Foam pack, but it won't fit snug, since it's smaller.

The Warmachine/Hordes bag dimensions are smaller overall. So you can't use the bottom zipper to add a Battle Foam P.A.C.K 216, or attach this bag to the larger 1520 P.A.C.K system either.

At present, the only way to accommodate some of the largest Warmachine/Hordes figures is to order a completely custom tray from them direct too, at an additional cost, plus shipping. Which is about the price of a nice new heavy warjack, or unit of infantry or more.

Cryx players have pointed out that there's no way to accommodate the entire Cryx army line at present in a single case as well.

Comparisons...

Lets compare a little. Sabol Designs Army Transport is what they refer to when they claim their case holds 2X as much as the competitions'. The owner has publicly said this numerous times.

I saw a guy on Privateer Press forums do the math versus two Standard Army Transports which features 12-inches of foam per bag, and comes with a set load out, and he even compared it to buying an empty Standard Army Transport and bought the trays he really wanted for the job separately too. By looking at the math and his calculations, to accommodate THAT person's army needs, it was better for him to use the Battle Foam Warmachine/Hordes case.

Another person did a nice video review of the product, and he emptied ALMOST 2 full standard Army Transport bags into the single Warmachine Battle Foam case, and it fit his entire load from both of those bags, and left about 12 slots left over. Although I'd have to say it's clear from the video that he didn't maximize his pluck foam trays from those
bags, and was one tray shy from being two full Standard Army Transport cases worth of Warmachine miniatures too. None the less, that's pretty impressive I'd have to say.

So this case can hold as much as two Standard Army Transports, so be it. Good job!

However! The Army Transport Motor Pool, which offers 16-inches worth of foam trays, in two 8-inch rows, side by side, in a shorter case design, also costs in most cases either the same, or less than the Standard Army Transport case. This is the case they should be comparing their product too, and carries an average price of around $70 delivered online ($62+$6 shipping from Warstore), and $69.95 at retail, give or take a few dollars.

The Standard Army Transport can be had for $65-$70 delivered just the same. So it's very close in price.

The Motor Pool also comes with 12.5x7.5 inch trays, same as the Standard Army Transport, but in a thicker variety for the Motor Pool with 1x 4-inch, 2x 3-inch, 2x 2.5-inch and 1x 1-inch trays. Regular Army Transports come with 6x 1-inch and 2 2.5 inch trays, plus toppers. The Warstore also offers a Warmachine Special load-out with 3x 1.5-inch, 2x 2-inch and 1x 3-inch tray at $69.99 too..

Doing the math, there's definitely some wasted space, but this depends on your army too. If you have ALOT of infantry and smaller pieces for Warmachine, then the Warstore's Warmachine Special and Battle Foam cases are the better option over all the rest, as both come with more 1.5 inch troop size trays.

Also the space of which the tray walls take up in the Battle Foam trays, are less than that of what you can design with a pluck-foam tray, so in most instances, the Battle Foam trays are designed a little better for max capacity when combined with the fact, dimension-wise, they're bigger too than the Army Transport trays.

Conclusions...

The Battle Foam case is a nice product, and offers a variety of very cool useful features for any Warmachine/Hordes player. There's no denying this. When you start to look at the dollars versus capacity, it's when it gets harder to decide, and here are the things to factor in...

The guy who NEEDs as much room as two Army Transports, or two Motor Pool cases, and wants just one case to lug his collection around with, then the Battle Foam is hands down a better option than buying two of the competition's products. However, as we've found out from others' calculations, two full Army Transports worth of Warmachine miniatures doesn't leave much room left over at all, and a few more releases later you'll have outgrown this case. Some of the largest figures too won't fit.

The guy with a smaller army, or even two smaller armies, who doesn't own every single piece for each faction that they make, might find that this case has more than enough room, and then some, and cost-wise, isn't as cost effective as buying a single Army Transport Motor Pool or Warstore Warmachine Special for now, and getting another one later when they really need more room. Overall even factoring in some of the wasted space, two Army Transport Motor Pool cases, offer equal to, or more than the capacity of this single Warmachine/Hordes Battle Foam case.

Granted, yes in terms of protection, this is a superior product too, but how many players let 200lb+ people sit on their miniature cases, toss them down 3 flights of steps, or even require being TSA/FAA size approved for airline travel? That's a bonus, not must have features if you ask me, because the average gaming enthusiast has done fine for years with what the competition has to offer in protection.

I myself have personally owned 3X Army Transports in the past, and never once had a problem with my figures not being protected, even though that system doesn't offer a hard plastic interior shell. I was also looking to buy a Warmachine Battle Foam case, and some extra Battle Foam trays, and later on when I got more extra cash, a P.A.C.K 216, to expand and use the case for both my Warmachine and 40k armies, switching out as needed what I wanted to take with me to the local gaming club.

Since they opted to go with different dimensions for their Warmachine/Hordes case, this isn't possible. Yes I could spend MORE and get a $200 Battle Foam P.A.C.K 1520, and buy the new trays they're making separately for Warmachine that fits those cases, but then I don't get the Warmachine specific features, so it ends up not so appealing, or cost effective.

Also dealing direct with Battle Foam, is like dealing direct with Games Workshop. You pay full retail, and while they claim shipping they offer is exact cost, it's hard to swallow full MSRP pricing, plus $19 shipping for a case (and more as you add more trays), when most of us are used to 20-30% retail and free shipping on any orders over $75-$100 online too now. On a more positive note, I've found the Battle Foam Warmachine/Hordes cases online for $130 delivered too elsewhere.

Sadly though, IF you want custom trays, and many of the other pre cut trays they offer (which by the way are amazing trays, made to fit like a glove for most minis, even 40k drop pods and land raiders, to name a few), dealing direct with them is the only way to get them at present, since their so new, and most stores that carry their products, don't carry the entire line yet.

It really is an amazing case, but it has quite a few things going against it, first and foremost is the cost, and I could be all cliché and say "you get what you pay for", but I still think you pay a little more than needed to have the features and capacity that this case offers, more so when there are suitable alternatives for quite a bit less. Not everyone needs a case this big.

Romeo, the owner and online face of Battle Foam has had an attitude when disagreed with, or when called out on an issue though. This is also something to consider when dealing with a small company. This guy has that buy it or don't attitude, he has danced around valid issues when point blank asked about some things, and even resorted to personal attacks, and had a thread locked on Privateer Press's forums when he snapped out. Others have addressed their concerns on the Privateer Press forums about total lack of replies from their emails with questions about Battle Foam products too. These are facts to be considered too.

In an economic time when the nation sits at 10%-11% unemployment, and all of the expendable cash people had just 5 years ago has all but disappeared for most... it makes it kind of hard to shell out $130-$150 for a case to carry our toy soldiers around in, when that's almost as much as a new small army to get started with in most any miniature game, and the competition offers a similar product for half the cost, with more than half the same capacity. However, if cost is no object, this is definitely the best new case out there for Warmachine/Hordes miniatures.

If there were a star rating I'd give it 3.5 out of 5 Stars too!
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:40 PM
smithymachine smithymachine is offline
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Default Re: Battle Foam Warmachine/Hordes case Review/Comparison In-depth
I read the posts on the PP forums and was amazed at the responses to this intelligent poster. The following was a reply by the owner, CEO of Battlefoam. The threads have been closed. All I can say is con-fidence man. Trying to "sell" things people do not even really need. Here is the post:
Xrazor, I'm going to take the bait. I know some of you will not like what I'm about to say, but enough is enough.

So here goes, bait taken Xrazor. Don't buy the bag man, simple as that. You wanted this answer all day from me so here it is. Don't buy it, please.

I started this business 2 years ago with $1000.00 in the bank. My wife and I have worked 80 hour weeks on average every week since that time. Ask anyone that knows me and they'll confirm that fact.

You talk about economic times and people having it hard but your on a forum for 12 hours BULL SH*TING around instead of looking for a better job to help your cause. You blamed everyone today about your misfortune except yourself.

The economy was bad for me and my wife also. It was bad for all 9 of our employees too, but we did something about it. We worked hard, and our employees work hard. They do that to help build a good company that take pride in their products and their customer service. What's that old saying, "if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem".

My friend, your part of the problem. Get out their and make your life better if Battle Foam's prices are the doom of your life. Stop buying models if you can't pay your bills. Why does it take 9 people to tell you your wrong all day for you to still keep going.

I have never seen someone as hard headed as yourself. That's not a put down its just the facts. You asked me for answers early on in your posts and I gave you truthful answers with facts and proof. You did not like that so you kept going.

Other people put pictures up and videos for gosh sakes and that was not enough. We compared apples to apples and you did not like that so you wanted apples to oranges to try to make your point again.

Still we all tried. You also pointed out that somehow people got something out of this amazing research that you uncovered over 2 1/2 pages of BS posts.

Really all you had to do is ask questions as 50 or so other people did that I answered within a few hours.

Again, I ask you nicely to leave this thing alone. Your decision is easy, don't buy it if you don't want it. That's called life and we all live it. I want a Ferrari California, but I don't think they'll give it to me for 30K like I would like so I guess I'll just have to work harder to maybe someday earn it.

Good luck to you my friend it seems like you will need it.

Romeo
Battle Foam
Protecting Your Army (one happy customer at a time)
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Old 02-17-2010, 01:33 PM
Razorx1970 Razorx1970 is offline
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Posts: 7
Default Re: Battle Foam Warmachine/Hordes case Review/Comparison In-depth
Yes, that would be the guy. A real nice guy, just the kind of person I want to hand my money over too right? (sense the extreme sarcasm there?).

Imagine what fun it would be to try and deal with Romeo, IF you were upset, and ended up having a problem with their product, and disagreed with something he said along the way during the process? Can you imagine how he might react, based on how he's already acted in a public forum?

Resorting to personal attacks, that's professional right? I guess I should be looking for a job on a SUNDAY (the day he was talking about, was on a Sunday), so I can save up and pay more of my hard earned cash for a BattleFoam case, because the charming and kind Romeo says so?

I was at a local gaming shop yesterday here in Pittsburgh, shooting the breeze with one of the co-owners and explained my experience with Romeo/BattleFoam. Evidently they too tried dealing direct with BattleFoam. I was told that their crappy attitude, combined with their extreme demands that they order 15X of each tray, and 5X of each case to carry their products helped to ensure that they blow off dealing with BattleFoam direct, and just carry what BattleFoam products they want or need from one of their 3 different distributors that they already deal with.

As an FYI, this shop sells the standard pre cut BattleFoam trays pretty good, but the P.A.C.K. cases just sit there, no one wants any of the cases they carry, because quite frankly, they're ALOT more expensive than what the competition offers, and they sell a bunch more Sabol Motor Pools at $70 a pop, versus $109 for a 432 P.A.C.K, which carries the trays on their side, and less overall trays. Also all of the P.A.C.K cases they sell, come with pluck-foam trays, not the nicer pre cut trays that they're known for. So any P.A.C.K BattleFoam case comes either empty, or if it comes with foam, it's pluck foam, unless you order direct from BattleFoam, and then you're paying a premium ($135+$16 S&H), for a custom load-out of 7.5-inches worth of trays and a P.A.C.K 432.

This local shop also offers 10% off all purchases with their discount card, which is free for all customers, and bonuses are earned at certain purchase amount thresholds. So overall cost is a little less than full MSRP, but Motor Pools still seam to win there overall, and this is by far the largest shop of its' kind in the region.

As long as Romeo continues to run this company, and doesn't employ someone to be the face of BattleFoam, who has people and PR skills in general, they'll be gone in a few years time, and won't make it nearly as long as the competition has. The guy can't accept any criticism, and freaks out when you make any TRUE comparisons with his products.

Fact is, BattleFoam is a nice product, but it's being offered at a time when the economy is likely the worst it has been in almost 100 years, and the premium features of all of their cases while nice, aren't a top priority among the masses. The minority of our market, are the war-gamers with lots of expendable income still, and those are the ones who this product can be afforded by, not the average gaming enthusiast, looking for a secure way to transport their armies to and from a gaming shop, or convention.

Yes this isn't an inexpensive hobby either, but I guarantee you there are more people into this genre, who've been effected by the economic times, than there are ones who financially haven't. All of the magazines in-print are gone now too, the last being Scrye, and they said publicly it was due to the economic situation as well. What I say holds ALOT of weight, and is backed up simply by turning on the news and finding out we live in a country where unemployment has hit 10%-11% to boot.

Having said that, I wish BattleFoam a lot of luck, with a CEO with an attitude and mouth like his, and the cost of their products, they'll need a lot of luck to make it through.

He's also been caught lying more than once..."I started this business 2 years ago with $1000.00 in the bank. My wife and I have worked 80 hour weeks on average every week since that time. Ask anyone that knows me and they'll confirm that fact." He says that on one forum, but then if you dig around you find out he owns Diablo Bats too, a biz that makes high-end wooden baseball bats, each of which that cost $60-$100+ EACH. He claims on the About Us page that he started Diablo Bats in 2000, and it seams to be up and running still, so his claims of JUST having $1000 in the bank, and being an average joe, who worked hard like you and I, sure seams like a bunch of horse-crap, and his first comment sure seams to carry ALOT less weight now. You be the judge.

Last edited by Razorx1970; 02-23-2010 at 08:09 PM.
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